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Which one of the Skinners is better – overall? Need some clarity please. Thanks in advance.
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Skinner North’s principal, though capable, is very equity-minded, discouraging parents’ push for scholastic excellence, while devoting sizeable resources to remedial students. This, however, doesn’t mean that, overall, students are not doing well academically.
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I am surprised the previous post said that Skinner North has remedial students. It is a selective enrollment school only.
We have a child in Skinner West classical and I must say I am not impressed at all. My other child, in a CPS magnet, is just as challenged if not more than my Classical child and I often regret going to the trouble of having them both split up. I have a friend who has 2 classical school kids [one just finished at West and one still at North] and she much preferred North in terms of the academics. I think the classical program at SW is going down-hill. That being said, SW is still one of the better schools in CPS and they have a lot of good extra-curriculars, music, etc
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What grade is your child in at SW classical?
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There are students who work at the nominal grade level – therefore one year behind the norm – and some even worse. They are given plenty of “support”, which is remedial in nature for the purpose of trying to catch up with the majority.
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Second hparker, it is true.
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Leadership is much better at SN. SW leadership is on the verge of retirement. They are not on the forefront of educational innovation. They also have to deal with the neighborhood component of the school. Yes, the West Loop has a middle-upper class demographic but also keep in mind they have a large Section 8 demographic that they cater to as well. With that being said, we have friends’ kids at SN who are burned out. Pick your poison.
If your kid is bored at SN or SW then it’s probably safe to say they’re extraordinarily smart and he/she needs to be challenged with outside programs like Kids Science Labs or Northwestern’s CTD program. Despite these schools being SE programs, it’s the parents’ job to keep their kid’s engaged. Don’t expect that much from an underfunded public district.
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To Launchpad
“If your kid is bored at SN or SW then it’s probably safe to say they’re extraordinarily smart and he/she needs to be challenged with outside programs like Kids Science Labs or Northwestern’s CTD program. Despite these schools being SE programs, it’s the parents’ job to keep their kid’s engaged. Don’t expect that much from an underfunded public district”.
I would also add Math Circles as well and not as expensive as KSL or CTD both great programs. I know parents who moved their children from SN to Bronzeville not so much of burnout vs the commute and bad traffic. Are they giving out that much homework and student projects ( more so All Hands on Deck via the parents)?
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We are at Skinner West and love it, although we can acknowledge some problems. One problem with the classical program is that there is now only 1 classical classroom per grade-so kids are not being switched around and grouped by ability as they were in the upper classical grades which have 2 sections. Also, if there is a child with a behavior problem in the class, they are stuck in the classroom with that child until 8th grade. The good is that for the most part, there are excellent teachers (with a few exceptions) in the classical program and they are guaranteed to be teaching at least 1 year above grade level. Our child is actually learning high school level math and English this year. The kids are definitely challenged. The neighborhood program is excellent, for the most part. The benefit of the neighborhood is that there are multiple classrooms per grade level and they can switch for reading and math and be grouped by ability, but the teachers don’t always choose to do that. As for the “large population of Section 8” I would say that’s not quite accurate. The school is only 17% low income compared to Skinner North’s 8%. I don’t have any experience with Skinner North but I can say that there is a very strong emphasis on academic excellence at Skinner West, if you can overlook some of the issues typical of a Chicago Public School.
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The CPS results are out…My son received 99 percentile in reading and match and 150 . He was offered Skinner North & Disney Magnet ? I would like to know on whats everyone’s opinion about Skinner North ?
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Where did you find your result? I do not see it on my gocps account. What does it mean?
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99 reading
98 maths
142 gifted
Skinner North – choice 3 behind Bell and Edison
Tier 4
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Got skinner north and STEM academy. We stay close to STEM academy. Do you think it will be ridiculous to let go of SN for STEM??
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Yes
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KT,
You can look for the school rankings based on standardized testing on this website: https://www.schooldigger.com/go/IL/city/Chicago/search.aspx
Skinner North is among the top 3 schools. Disney can’t compare to SN. Your child will be surrounded by students who got tested in and these students mostly are very talented. Disney is a magnet school where the students get in by lottery, so the quality of students is less.
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What factors are important to you when considering which school is “better” — academics, testing statistics, extracurriculars, parent involvement, etc.? We’re going to accept our offer to SN. We’re friends with several families with kids there, and I get the general notion that it’s a great school — the kids are challenged academically (but not overworked), there’s a fairly high parent involvement (especially for a school that is a “commuter” school), and the administration is approachable. I’m not sure if having a principal who is “equity-minded” is a bad thing for a public selective enrollment school that has to accept kids from across the city and various tiers. I have not heard that resources are being wasted or earmarked for students who need extra support when they could be used otherwise. I’m not sure about Skinner West, but from my friends who have kids there (some in the classical program, some in the neighborhood program), I get the sense that there’s a clash between the two programs where the neighborhood families want to eliminate the classical program and the resources are being pushed and pulled to appease both groups.
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docdad,
I think if you look at the schooldigger ranking above with standardized test scores, SN is definitely better than STEM. Remember, every single one of SN’s students are tested in based on their abilities, whereas STEM Academy is based on a lottery system.
If I were you I would be willing to make the sacrifice of a longer commute for a higher quality student body. (In fact, I do live farther away from SN than you.)
If you Google for previous years’ discussions, you’ll find that the waitlist for SN is way longer than any other school. So basically, if you don’t accept this offer this time and want to go back to SN, you might not get a second chance anymore. I’ve known friends of a friend who wanted to go to SN for grade 1, both tested 99/99 but only one was given an offer.
Since you got in on the first round, your child is definitely talented. Wouldn’t you want to cherish that and let him or her grow to his/her best potential?
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I am a a student at Skinner North. I love my school, I have learned so many things from all of my teachers I have ever had, they bring us into deep discussions that don’t take place at other schools. I have also learned so much about other kids at Skinner North, our school is extremely diverse so we get the privelage to learn about other cultures while in the classroom. Not only the academics, but the environment we are put in at Skinner North really helps my classmates learn and thrive.
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I am a student as well and wholeheartedly agree with your comment. I feel that I am able to have discussions I wasn’t able to when I went to another school and growing up in a diverse environment has changed my view of the world.
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Hi, I have been going to Skinner a North for 6 years now and I really like it here. The teachers keep learning fun and exciting while giving us one of the best educations in the state. It is truly a place where everyone feels welcome. The staff really helped me and many other kids I know after moving to Chicago from our old homes in other countries.
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I have a Skinner West neighborhood program student here who just got into Whitney Young Academic center for this school year. I do believe that the neighborhood program has more advantages to the classical program academically. I’ve had my minor complaints about the how large the student body is and how large classrooms are but the academics shine, if that’s your main concern.
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what advantages does the neighborhood have over the classical school program academically?
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@Dolphin Dad I am interested in hear more about this as well!
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Congrats @dolphindad and go Dolphins! I also explained above how the neighborhood program now does have some academic advantages. The main one being that they can divide the kids up by ability for both reading and math because there are 3 neighborhood classrooms. The high levels receive instruction one year above grade level, just like the classical program. Most students in the high level neighborhood program are all scoring in the 90th percentile and above. Unfortunately, the classical program is down to only 1 classroom per grade level and there are always a few kids in there who may struggle a bit. The class tends to have to wait for those kids to catch up so the highest level kids can be affected. Not a lot, in my experience, but it does happen. They aren’t moving as fast as they maybe should be through the curriculum. My experience at Skinner West involves both neighborhood and classical programs. Overall though, I would say I am happier with the classical program as the focus is consistently on academics and the students in there are for the most part all serious about learning. As an FYI, Skinner West just had 24 students who got into the Whitney Young Academic Center this year (which may be the most out of any CPS school) and at least 4 who got into Lane Tech. So I would say overall it’s a great program. There will always be things that can be improved at any school but obviously they are doing something right here.
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“the classical program is down to only 1 classroom per grade level and there are always a few kids in there who may struggle a bit. The class tends to have to wait for those kids to catch up so the highest level kids can be affected”
I guess this applies to all programs/schools. I won’t necessarily say its Neighborhood Class has an advantage over Classical Class academically.
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Our daughter is at Skinner North, and we are transferring her out this year. She has begged us not to go back in-person. The school has completely changed since the previous principal and many of the fabulous teachers have left. In fact, none of our daughters K-4th grade teachers are still at the Skinner North. There is a pervasive bullying problem, and when kids or parents report, they are given lip-service. While our daughter wasn’t being bullied, her best friend was and it was so upsetting for her to witness. When we reported, we were told the bullied child has emotional problems, but our daughter told us that it was only because of how other kids and staff treated her friend. We can attest to that as they have been friends for years, and we have never seen the kind of behavior the school wanted us to believe come out of her friend, who is the sweetest and kindest kid we know. The stories shared by our daughter were really painful to hear. The older the kids get the more competitive and mean they become- so many kids have left in recent years. Other parents can be pretty snobby and treat the school like their own private school. It used to be an amazing school with supportive teachers that allowed for mutual respect in relationships. The principal can be heard saying “if they don’t like it, then they should just leave.” It shocked my husband as the school says they want to honor cultural differences and understanding, but it’s pretty clear they are also selective in who they want to be in their community.
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Macy,
Could you elaborate more on what you mean that kids become competitive and mean. How exactly is it exhibited?
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ES,
The bullying I said above was so mean and never should have happened or gone on so long without the school stopping it. Our daughter told us that there are students made to feel like they don’t fit in and get picked on by most of her grade, and it is sad because most of them all know each other since K. She says she tried to tell recess people and teachers but it just kept going and going. She also says it happens in other grades too.
The kids have been online for over a year, and our daughter has us read group texts about who got what grade on their tests, very competitive, and then who did and didn’t understand-mean spirited. There are chats about how many got an A, B, C…D, F. Add the stress of getting high grades and do well on the test to get in an academic center and then getting into a high school. That is what I meant way to too much stress for elementary school- too competitive and mean when they get older. She gets straight As, but knows her cousin does also, yet has more fun in school and feels way more happy at a different school. School should be not be so stressful, and it makes her cry a lot. We listen to LSC meetings and heard other parents were saying the same thing about bullying in other grades than our daughter.
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Many SN families have high expectations of their children’s academic success, so “way too much stress for elementary school” isn’t surprising, and will probably keep increasing as such families self-select. (Some families are just unable to anticipate what they would get into when applying for K there.) There are students who enjoy being competitive, or don’t care, and others who can’t keep up. <span data-dobid=”hdw”>C’est la vie. The school’s admin has done a lot to contain the top and help the bottom. Also, has it ever been possible anywhere to eradicate mean-spirited in/out-group dynamics among kids?</span>
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Mary and hparker, thank you for explaining.
hparker, when you said the school administration “contains” the top, do you mean not allowing them to advance even more academically? How is containing done?
I understand they help the bottom through some remedial pull-outs with Reading or Math specialists.
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Just circling back as I realize the question was never answered about those at the top. I can tell you my child is at the top and essentially is asked to answer questions from her peers and help others during class. I’m all for this, and I think students working with students and lifting each other up is so supportive. Here’s the concern-the teachers don’t do it; kids teach each other and the imbalance of power impacts the kids so much. Those at the “top” get lost, and their learning is held back. We have paid a lot of money for our child to participate in after-school enrichments because she loves math. Sadly, we have received a lot of lip-service from the principal and the staff that our child should just go to an academic center (which she is!). Basically, we are being told repeatedly that Skinner North has NO PLANS to work with her. This is one of the many reasons we were leaving the school. THE BULLYING IS SO INTENSE AND IS UNACCEPTABLE ANYWHERE (the comments above normalize bullying, and that is so sad). We are one of so many families leaving the end of this year 2020-2021. Many are going to their neighborhood school or moving out of the city. Check out other schools and move Skinner North to the bottom of your list. It is not what it used to be when we enrolled. Save yourself, and most importantly your child, the stress.
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Our experience with SN has been completely the opposite and overwhelmingly positive. My son just finished 6th grade and year after year the quality of teaching has been miles above what my daughter got in the neighborhood school (Lincoln). Not everyone in the class is at the same level — they do have a handful of kids who tested in early on, but did not live up to their test results, struggled oved the years, but still prefer to stay — but a vast majority of kids are very strong and this challenges everyone to excel. It is competitive, but mostly in a healthy way and my son never had issues with that. Never heard of bullying from him and I know that he is not a bully himself. Once or twice some kids said something stupid about his heritage which made him upset, but that’s what the kids do; nothing of a sort of a persistent issue. He also is moving to academic center now, but teachers never pushed him to do so. I would strongly recommend SN to anyone.
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Honestly, I am puzzled by reviews that allege bullying is prevalent in SN. Our experience so far is that the issue exists among a tiny set of kids, year after year. In this remote year of a middle grade, the rare conflicts in chatrooms were mainly led by girls. Overall, it seems SN’s anti-bully teaching actually works, like a vaccine, in the sense of limiting the issue to a very small number of students. Those kids also tend to be academically challenged, therefore in no way can dominate student conversation in a very scholastic school. Here’s hoping it can offer high school geometry.
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Well, I just learned from our daughter that yet another star teacher (the Golden Apple winner) is leaving the school. I’m glad that your kids weren’t impacting in the bullying, and sorry to hear about the heritage comments…
Maybe I had front row viewing to some of the online comments that made our daughter (and us as parents) really upset? Not sure, but we completely understood why it was in the best interest of our daughter to leave the school. Who are “those kids” being referred to in the comment above? What does “student communication” and “dominate” mean? What does it mean to “not live up to the test results?” Kids at the school should all experience the educational growth no matter what. A small (or large or even just one) number of students who experience bullying all got themselves into the school and deserve a healthy and nurturing environment that enhances their lives. Gosh, I’m so glad we are leaving. Best of luck.
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Dear Mary,
I’m writing to you to tell you that your kind, measured, intelligent comments pulled me back from the brink of sadness after reading some of the “reviews” printed on this site. I am a retired Early Childhood administrator whose children want to the Bank Street School for Children in NY City. I’m so glad you have the courage and compassion to advocate for your child.
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Mary A,
Which teacher is leaving? I know SN has a couple golden apple teachers, so if you do not want to say the name, grade will be sufficient.
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The 7-8th grade math teacher, if she is indeed leaving, may or may not be missed. She’s a good teacher for sure, handling middle-school contents well, and deserves her Golden Apple. But Skinner North families need a math teacher who’s open to adding high school geometry and introducing other topics to challenge advanced students. Otherwise, the school’s one-third-plus leakage each year to Academic Centers is unstoppable.
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1/3 of the students attending AC isn’t problematic. It is a sign that students are prepared well for the next leg of their academic journey at SN. Not all elementary school students, even at SN, are ready for Geometry in 8th grade (especially during a pandemic).
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Just to give you perspective: I am from Europe and it is typical to start geometry in grade 4 of a regular neighborhood school. Not sure why people are saying not all students at SN 8th grade are ready for that. My 2nd grader does geometry. We are the only ones who limit our kids or students to tell them what they are ready or not for. Hopefully, the new SN 7-8 grade teacher will be more open to more advanced material.
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Mary, I’m very sorry that you and your child felt that way. Best wishes at the new school.
I’m also a Skinner North mom and have never experienced bullying at SN. From my experience the teachers do a wonderful job emphasizing to children about being kind and inclusive. For the younger children, they even practice through story scenarios of identifying if someone’s feelings are hurt and how to resolve the problems.
Even though the students are divided into different ability groups for math, spelling, and reading, the group names are neutral, like colors and shapes, so that they don’t imply which level a child is at. The teachers are very respectful and sensitive in this regard. Part of the reason I picked SN is precisely the reason that the entire school has the same students, no special labels such as “gifted” or “normal”.
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For clarification, all students at Skinner North learn Geometry. I am referring to High School Geometry.
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Multiple selective enrollment high schools have math placement tests for new students upon their entry. Those who pass HS Geometry can then take Algebra 2 as their starting point, which will usually lead to having AP Calculus under their belt at the time of college application – an almost necessity for those desiring highly competitive universities. SN’s past excuse for not providing HS Geometry was that, unlike Algebra 1, CPS doesn’t allow elementary school students to earn the credit. Which is ridiculous because the same 8th graders, if they are in an Academic Center, can earn that credit. But what’s more important than the credit is the placement-based course sequence mentioned above that opens up opportunities for highly desirable colleges. Even more important is the fact that, for advanced students, waiting for Algebra 1 in 8th grade and HS geometry in 9th is a waste of their time.
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Just going to say…we are so glad we left. It is amazing to hear how far some will go to defend the school. Please…parents. Do your research and read through and/or listen to LSC comments. There has been an alarming number of families and staff that left the school…
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Hparker
you are correct about the math levels for CPS my son is at Lindblom AC he passed the algebra test and then took geometry over the summer 5 weeks for 4 hrs M-F. Passed did very well now going to 8th grade Alg/tri for 8th grade and will hit prevail or cal for 9th grade. The AC really open things up and gives a lot of HS credits.
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I’ve read all the comments above and wanted to give perspective on SW and some feedback on bullying in general. I believe that no bullying should be discredited or doubted because it happens in pockets and should be taken seriously and reprimanded. It is up to the staff and parents to rear children away from behaving this way. There is a thing called “healthy competition “ and not pressuring the kids to the point of mental illness or the need to bully to meet their parents expectations. It starts at home , always remember that.
As a parent of SW my daughter is in neighborhood even though I put her in boot camp twice before she took the K classical test and she was doing worksheets for homework with me since she was 18 months old. She didn’t get in to classical however she’s in the highest class for math and reading which is the same curriculum as classical. With that being said, she does love her school but since remote learning her math skills have weakened and her teachers are not good at supporting their learning. I will also have to say that the school is struggling to fill the empty teachers spots who have left since covid and are hiring young teachers at 24 years or below who have little to no teaching experience. Also, we just got notice the principle is leaving, but this could be a good or bad thing depending on who’s taking over.
I will have to say that I am guilty of pressuring my daughter to get 100% on all her homework and tests when I see that she struggles at getting one wrong each time and even though I feel bad after seeing her get so upset BC of the pressure I know the only answer is not to pressure but to support by giving her additional help like tutoring and prep classes in addition to her schooling. A lot of parents went private this year or suburb BC of the remote mandate and they were smart in doing so BC the remote learning impacted the students ability to learn and the teachers motivation to teach. I’m going to supplement my daughters education this year with additional support but depending on who takes over as principle she may or may not be attending SW next year.Also, when looking at test scores online to compare schools keep in mind that the test scores for SW is an accumulation of both their neighborhood and classical together so if it’s lower than the other classical schools it’s because it’s a combination the neighborhood scores as well which is not a fair representation of SW classical test scores. It never was so it’s hard to gauge. I will have to agree with the other SW parent aboves comments that having my daughter in the highest neighborhood math class is better than the classical BC she’s learning the same but gets variety of students each year and no one in her class holds them back. I will be training her on testing each year to get acclimated to it so that by the time she’s ready for the AC testing she’ll get in and get out of the CPS elementary school classroom sizes.
Feel free to ask me any questions about SW, happy to help.
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SW is getting a new principal. Not sure if new person will prioritize Classical kids as much of the focus is on neighborhood. The Middle School program is great at Skinner W. Skinner north recently ranked 1 in test scores though as a Classical only school it is being directly compared to West which is only 25% classical or less and 75% neighborhood. I think they are both good. And they are both CPS so you get all that comes with that….
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<p style=”text-align: left;”>New mom, seeking info on SW and SN which is better for my kids currently kinder and 2nd grade.</p>
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<p style=”text-align: left;”>Hi everyone</p>
These are great thoughts for both Skinners. My K just got an offer to SN and I wonder if we should forgo the offer to try SW for R2.These concerns about bullying and families leaving is really concerning.
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Thank you everyone for very honest conversations on SN and bullying.
my 5th grader who is in Bell Options program offered SN for 6th grade. Would you kindly consider commenting to help me decide if we should move her now?
Thank you in advance for your kindness.
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The sixth grade teachers are all very good (esp. the literacy and social science teacher👍🏻👍🏻) at Skinner North and my son never had the bullying issue at school. Overall, we were so happy for the time my son at SN (from KGN to 6th). My son just left this year for the Academic Center.
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