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Hi all,
Can someone break down all this fuss for me like I am a 3 year old. We are applying for 1st grade but new to Chicago.
RGC = Regional Gifted Center.
What is a verbal vs non verbal score? Do they ask kiddos questions out loud when they are in a group? Do RGCs go one grade ahead or two grades ahead. Seems like RGC are more project based?
Classical
Is this just math and reading? Do schools typically accept 1st graders it seems like most kids start in Kinder. If a kid gets a high enough score do they accept them or must they have an open seat? I went to an Open House and they said classical was more framed like Montessori.
What is the true difference between Classical and RGCs? How different is the test? How do people prep their children at home without and outside test prep?
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Welcome to Chicago! I’ve lived here for a while, but the first time I had a kid test for elementary was last year for 5th entry.
Here’s how I see it: in the big picture view, RGC and classical are both public, selective enrollment (i.e., magnet) schools for academically advanced children. They work slightly differently. RGCs work one to two grades ahead – this will depend on the school your child goes to and their grade. Most start work one grade ahead and work up to two years ahead, and the approach is oriented toward the “gifted” child – think critical thinking, logical reasoning, problem solving.
Classical schools work one grade ahead and focus more on treating the liberal arts with a higher level of academic rigor. These kids are going deep on literature, language arts, humanities, history, while working a grade ahead in math.
To differentiate even further, individual schools will sometimes have a “focus” (Pritzker is an RGC with an arts program; Edison is a dedicated RGC, etc.)
In theory, you would tour, consider your child’s test scores and learning styles, and decide which is best. In reality, many parents take the best school they can gain entry to that works for their whole-life circumstances (commute, start time, etc.) I had a list of classical and RGC schools I would have been happy to accept, and stayed open on where we were able to get in.
The tests are separate, and most parents have their child tested for both. For the RGC test, the verbal/nonverbal corresponds to the CogAT test; verbal is the understanding of language and non-verbal is shapes/patterns/logic. The classical test is a more traditional academic test to measure if your child is advanced.
As for admittance, there are three major entry points for selective enrollment schools: kindergarten (everyone is new); 7th grade (many children move to Academic Centers, opening spots at classical and RGCs); and 9th grade (everyone is moving to HS). Otherwise, it can be quite competitive to get in – though 1st/2nd seems a bit easier, as some parents retest and shift to their ideal school after kinder.
Kids are admitted by the number of open seats, according to their scores. For example, if 3 first grade seats open up at a school that’s on your list, they will offer those seats to the three highest scoring students who applied to the school.
I did not personally do any prep work (maybe someone else can chime in from personal experience!) There are plenty of CogAT prep materials on Amazon and the internet that I think would be good at-home prep for the RGC. For the classical test, strengthen reading comprehension and try some math workbooks a grade ahead to build up their knowledge.
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I think that’s a fantastic explanation.
One add – Beaubien has a SEES gifted program that starts at 1st grade entry. So they will start new with a full 1st grade class.
For the other SEES, 1st grade and above, your tier doesn’t matter. They simply select the best available student for the # of spots they have. Many schools increase their enrollment by a handful of kids at the 4th grade (at least it used to be that way, it may depend on class sizes)
I think my only frustration with the ‘classical’ label is if you look the classical education pedagogy, the curriculum isn’t really aligned to that. Our Classical school switched from Latin to Spanish and were studying contemporary texts. It may depend on the school, but I wouldn’t be too hung up on the difference, just take what works best.
Either way, your kid will be in the company of bright kids with generally involved parents and supportive teachers. Over the years (as we’ve moved from SEES to SEHS) a common theme at parent night is how many teachers truly enjoy teaching these kids because of how they can engage in discussions and their ability to consume information. I feel like some of them have really stretched my kids to their max potential.
As far as test prep, I will just say this. There is some solace in knowing that your kid can handle the workload and subject matter if they just naturally (un-prepped) get in to a school. Because if you have to prep the heck out of them to test in there, you may have to support them significantly once they are there. Maybe that’s okay for you, but it can be damaging to their educational process if things are too challenging.
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One add – Beaubien has a SEES gifted program that starts at 1st grade entry. So they will start new with a full 1st grade class.
Adding to this – Keller has a 1st grade entry year as well!
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The bottom line for CPS schools is the IAR testing which is driven by the common core curriculum. So fundamentally there’s not a lot of “wiggle room” in the curriculum and so I wouldn’t expect any major difference between “classical” and “RGC” schools. Most schools use the same curriculum materials (eureka math or envision, amplify, skyline) as other CPS schools, just one year ahead
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Thank you all. The explanation is very helpful. Would anyone have any outcome based information as well? I recall reading 2-3 years ago that at the end of the day, the differences (being 1 or 2 grade ahead etc) get normalized as they all prepare to get into the top 3-5 High schools , e.g. Whitney, Peyton etc. The admission process in those schools is the same across the board (unless I am grossly mistaken).
Beyond the assumption that academic rigor, early in elementary school would be good for a child (which is arguable on varies other levels) – what impact does one see come time to select a college or high school, of the child going to classical/gifted? I have a kindergartner and debating if this would be undue pressure on him (and thus far, I dont see him to be academically inclined 😉 ) Thanks in advance -
It’s so child dependent.
Because cps schools are public, you can see how each school and grade performs on standardized tests and at what rates they get into selective enrollment.
We have a strong neighborhood school where 40-50% of the class is going to a selective enrollment high school, so we opted to stay vs doing a SEES. We thought the community and being able to walk and have friends close by, along with better well roundedness served our kids. But that’s not true for every school or every kid.
SEES definitely have higher rates of kids going to SEHS but I wouldn’t look at that in isolation. While curriculums can better prepare you for the test, ultimately individuals take it and individuals attend high schools, so it just depends on where you think your kids will thrive. I think for most kids there are tradeoffs to the different options and you just need to think about which ones are higher priority at this moment in time. And of course it could change as they grow.
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Because cps schools are public, you can see how each school and grade performs on standardized tests and at what rates they get into selective enrollment.
Do you have a way to see the rates they get into SEHS? I know standardized tests and readiness reports are published but wasn’t aware there’s data avail for what HS they ultimately accept at.
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TLDR, don’t overthink it. Both tracks offer advanced curriculum, motivated families and teachers, and prepare kids well for SEHS. If your kid naturally qualified for one of these schools, I do think it’s good to go there.
I had 2 kids who tested for SEES and consistently performed differently on those tests and got into the respective schools – one clearly fit the rote ‘classical’ mold and the other truly thinks in a gifted manner.
Flash forward, they both were able to get into an AC (which uses gifted test). Subsequently, they have taken HSAT as required and their scores qualified them for SEHS independent of them already being there. Being part of the AC curriculum prepared them for the HSAT just by virtue of the math/reading exposure.
It’s my understanding at the 7th/8th grade level, the SEES are making sure those students will have as good outcomes as possible on the HSAT – not saying they prep them hard, but they do cover general good practices – test taking skills, math and reading readiness.
At the point SEES kids are selecting a high school, it becomes a bit more dynamic than simply parent selected – you’re considering a location your kid should be able to get to/from independently, they may have preferences with their friends or program/sports/activity offerings.
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Unsure if there is an updated one, but there is a table with this info here
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